Nick Barringer | Dietitian Synergy & Evolving Tactical Strength and Conditioning

Get to know Army Lieutenant Colonel Nick Barringer, Program Director for the United States Army-Baylor University Master’s in Nutrition. Barringer shares how he originally planned to become a strength and conditioning coach before a nutrition course inspired him to pursue dietetics. However, it was his Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist® (CSCS®) credential that ultimately landed him his role as the first 75th Ranger Regiment (Army Rangers) Dietitian. He recounts drawing inspiration from the Navy SEALS to start the Ranger Athlete Warrior (RAW) program and seeing the Special Operations THOR3 program follow suit — laying the groundwork for the US Army Holistic Health and Fitness (H2F) system. Barringer and McMahon discuss the synergy between strength and conditioning coaches and dietitians, as well as cultural challenges and diverse training ages in tactical settings. The pair also stress the importance of sales and building relationships before discussing basic nutrition advice and pathways into tactical and dietetics careers.

Connect with Nick on Instagram at: @nickbarringer.phd.rdn or by email: nickbarringer35@gmail.com | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or LinkedIn: @ericmcmahoncscs

“If I'm the dietitian at the unit or coming into a unit, I want to get on the calendar of those leaders. I want to go on a run with that regimental commander, that battalion commander, that brigade commander, and have that conversation with him or her to see what their vision is and where I can nest in it.” 11:05

“My first suggestion would be… find those strength coaches who've successfully made that transition to the military. And talk to them before going in.” 13:20

“It's more important in the tactical community that you practice what you preach… I'm not saying you got to be able to do everything that the soldier can do. But if you can put a rack on and at least go a couple miles and do those sort of things, that really carries a lot of weight.” 14:20

[00:00:00.42] [THEME MUSIC]
[00:00:02.53] Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast, Season 8, Episode 7.
[00:00:07.69] If I'm the dietitian at the unit or coming into a unit, I want to get on the calendar of those leaders. I want to go on a run with that regimental commander, that battalion commander, that brigade commander, and have that conversation with him or her to see what their vision is and where can nest in it.
[00:00:27.94] This is the NSCA's Coaching Podcast, where we talk to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know but probably didn't learn in school. There's strength and conditioning, and then there's everything else.
[00:00:38.50] This is the NSCA Coaching Podcast. I'm Eric McMahon, NSCA's Coaching and Sports Science Program Manager. Today we're discussing the growth of performance programs in the tactical military environment and about collaboration with registered dietitians. Joining us on the podcast is Army Lieutenant Colonel Nick Barringer. He's a nutritional physiologist and the Director for the US Army Baylor University Nutrition Master's Degree Program. He was formerly a professor at Army West Point and a dietitian for the 75th Ranger Regiment. Nick, what's up, man?
[00:01:14.23] Hey, what's up, Eric? Happy to be here, man. I'm excited.
[00:01:17.26] Always great to connect. And I know anyone who has been to annual tactical training for the NSCA in the past few years knows you and that you are always one of the favorite presenters there. You've been with the NSCA for a long time, so it's great to have you here. And you can share with us a bit. You have an RD background. You're also a long time CSCS. What are some of the things that inspired your path into tactical performance?
[00:01:45.05] Yeah, so we'll go back to college. I went to University of Georgia. And I started off, I wanted to be a strength coach. That was my passion. I had a great mentor growing up, the late great Scott Hines, who molded me to be a strength coach. And so I got to the University of Georgia, exercise science major, working in the weight room, got a chance to work in the weight room there, the football team.
[00:02:10.49] And there was a guy that really stood out to me, a guy by the name of Keith Gray. He had just come over from Auburn. And watching him, the way he interacted with the players, his approach, he did a bridging program which I had never even seen up until then, where you had folks-- he would talk to the athletic trainers while he was training the guy in the weight room and have that conversation back and forth, where previously I just saw like, OK, you have the weight room, you have the training room. So things like that inspired me into human performance and got me excited.
[00:02:45.57] And then I had a great nutrition class. And that professor, her name-- I don't know if she's still teaching-- Emilia Papakonstantinou. I still remember it because that class was so dynamic and interesting, I decided to become a dietitian. And then along the way, I did Army ROTC at the University of Georgia with the Bulldog Battalion. So I wanted to find a crossroad where I could make all those things meet, where the athletic training and stuff I was exposed to with the University of Georgia football team, the nutrition I was getting in my classes, and then the training I was doing with the Bulldog Battalion there to be an Army officer.
[00:03:23.47] Wow. And you were doing this all at a time when sports nutrition or tactical nutrition and strength and conditioning are relatively new in the Army, in the military. We're hearing a lot about these opportunities right now for strength and conditioning coaches and other performance professionals to work in the military. What's been this evolution from how you've seen it?
[00:03:50.01] So when I first came in as a dietitian, dietitians were found in the hospital. That's where we were. Dietitians weren't down there where the soldiers were. We only saw them when they failed the take test and were overweight or they got sick. And while I was doing my first appointment in Baghdad, Iraq-- I'll never forget this-- I got word that the 75th Ranger Regiment was standing up a human performance program and they were looking for a dietitian.
[00:04:17.76] And so they came and they interviewed me. And the guy's name was Danny. Danny McMillan was one of the guys I interviewed on the phone. And one of the reasons I got the job-- I didn't, we were talking a little bit about this before, but I didn't mention this-- was because I had a CSCS.
[00:04:31.02] Wow.
[00:04:31.24] Because then, we didn't have strength coaches. We didn't-- he was a physical therapist. And he had his CSCS. And he knew in order to stand up this program and train an entire regiment, he needed not only to bring a dietitian, but somebody who understood exercise, how to teach proper technique, how to do all those things, because there was only going to be three to four of us. So I got hired for that position.
[00:04:57.46] So we had a physical therapist. We had an occupational therapist, Rob Motz, who's also a CSCS, great human performance person. And then we had a Master Sergeant, Matt Wilson, who was kind of our NCOIC. And so we were a team of four people for 3,700 Rangers starting out. And so we started the Ranger Athlete Warrior Program. And through that, through those pillars of sports medicine, performance nutrition, mental toughness, all those different things that we were incorporating, we built that program.
[00:05:38.92] And then the group that really had it first that we learned from-- I'll give them credit-- is the Navy Seals. I think they were the first actually to have strength coaches and all like that before anybody else there in Virginia Beach. And so we learned from those folks. And then around this time, the Ranger Athlete Warrior Program was getting steam and getting to be known. And that is when Special Operations stood up the Thor Three Program, tactical human optimization and rapid recovery and reconditioning or rehabilitation, I can't remember. But then that was when the strength coaches started getting hired on and you started to see strength coaches actually in the units come on.
[00:06:19.36] So it largely started in the special forces side of things.
[00:06:24.02] Yes.
[00:06:24.10] We're starting to see more of an evolution and a term that comes out a lot is H2F, or Holistic Health and Fitness. And that-- just correct me if I'm wrong-- but is that scaling some of these programs to maybe the big Army.
[00:06:39.82] Exactly. You nailed it. So the Thor Three Program grew. And I only can imagine a lot of general officers saw that and saw the success of that and how it was getting Special Operators back into the fight and making them more physically fit. So the Holistic Health and Fitness Program was born out of that. And now throughout the Army in these units, you have human performance records, you have strength coaches, you have sports psychologists, you have dietitians all there working on the ground with these soldiers.
[00:07:12.79] Which again, it was so exciting to me because perspective, we didn't have that when I first came in. And for quite some time, I was an anomaly working at the Ranger regiment, being on the ground. Even the whole tactical growth of that with the-- we talked about TSAC. I don't know if you remember this, but the first TSAC they tried to have in 2007 or 2008 actually got canceled because enough people weren't interested, which is mind-blowing when you look at it now.
[00:07:42.93] And I think the very first TSAC that was hosted was at NSCA headquarters in a classroom. That's how many people were doing it at that time, to that point. To whereas now, you've seen 600 attendees at a TSAC, right?
[00:07:59.17] Yeah.
[00:08:00.62] So it's really grown now, especially now that it's opened up throughout the Army.
[00:08:05.14] So all these different disciplines working together-- and we can talk about dietitians and strength and conditioning coaches just with who we're talking right now. But all these different disciplines working together-- how are you seeing these different careers being supportive to each other and complementary to each other?
[00:08:29.01] Well, let me answer that. But first, go back. I do want to make the thing that I'm saying Army, but this human performance is now extended to the Space Force, to the Air Force, to the Navy. So it's really getting out there.
[00:08:45.66] But the interaction with those teams and being a cohesive unit-- and usually those skill sets were kind of stovepiped. You had nutrition over here, you had strength and conditioning over here. And now with these H2F units that they're all co-located and together, you're getting that interaction that you don't normally get. And it's so valuable for those warfighters.
[00:09:09.79] And I'll give examples of this. When I was at the Ranger regiment, if somebody came to see the occupational therapist or the physical therapist and they had an injury, a lot of times they would say, hey, have you seen the dietitian yet, one, to talk about nutrition to get that recovery going? Or two, one of the things that I saw was folks tend to gain weight when they can't run anymore. And so hey, let's nip that in the bud and be like, hey, you can't run anymore. You can't expend that energy. Let's talk about how you're either going to adjust your diet or adjust your activity. So we had those type of things.
[00:09:43.24] On the flip side of that, if I'm in the gym working out and I were to look across and I were to see a Ranger or soldier limping, I would go over to him. And I'd be like, hey, what's going on? And they might tell me, oh, I got this. I'd be like, have you seen the physical therapist yet? Because we have the data. The sooner you see them, we can prevent that acute injury from becoming chronic.
[00:10:03.68] So it was just little interactions like that throughout the day. You have that synergy. And we're all speaking the same language. And then even with the CSCS, hey, I can teach a power clean, I can teach a deadlift. And that would add value because, you know as a strength coach yourself, you only got one set of eyes. And when you've got 40, 50, 100 soldiers in the weight room, the more eyes you can have helping you, particularly on those technical lifts, the better.
[00:10:30.91] So you built this performance machine. And as you know, with anything new, especially in something as historic as the military and the Army, there can be some cultural challenges with new ideas, new people that you're reporting to and talking to. How have you navigated some of those challenges with maybe convincing soldiers that maybe weren't as ready for some of these new ideas.
[00:10:59.55] Right. And that's always a challenge. And that gets into the culture. And I've learned so much about changing culture now through our mutual friend Martin Rooney and his books. But that's where, whenever-- at least, if I'm the dietitian at the unit or coming into a unit, I want to get on the calendar of those leaders. I want to go on a run with that regimental commander, that battalion commander, that brigade commander, and have that conversation with him or her to see what their vision is and where I can nest in it.
[00:11:33.19] And what's exciting, a lot of, I would say, the younger folks coming into the military, they understand that, especially if they were an athlete. With the older folks, you might play off the injuries and the things that they have now later in their career. And there might be a way to, could have prevent it. But the main thing is just having those conversations with the leadership and who's in charge, getting their approval, but then also going down to where those young soldiers are at and talking to their more direct leadership, those squad leaders, those platoon sergeants, and getting their buy-in as well.
[00:12:12.08] I mean, ultimately-- I was just talking to some dietitians about this. I was like, you know the one thing they don't teach us? Sales. You got to sell yourself. You can have all the nutrition knowledge in the world, but if you can't sell yourself, if you can't sell your ideas, if you can't sell your nutrition plan to those young soldiers, you're dead in the water. Doesn't matter how much knowledge you have. So it's a lot of building relationships.
[00:12:34.15] I think a lot of strength coaches might feel that way, too, especially as some in our field are trying to become more entrepreneurial with our skill sets, maybe for more income opportunities or whatever it may be in the private sector. One thing you hit on was really training across the lifespan. And what's overlooked a lot of times, a lot of times in strength and conditioning, it's that 18 to 22 college age window. Hopefully we get those high school kids maybe a few years earlier.
[00:13:02.05] But now we're talking in the military, maybe 18 to 50 plus. And a lot of differences there. Is there advice for strength coaches getting into the field about maybe how to prepare for a different world of strength and conditioning that we're in?
[00:13:20.80] Yeah. My first suggestion would be-- I know the strength coach network is strong and a lot of people know each other through the NSCA-- is find those strength coaches who've made successfully made that transition to the military. And talk to them before going in because if you go in with that collegiate, sometimes, mindset-- particularly we'll take a sport like football. It might not set you up for success for how things run in the military, right?
[00:13:50.26] Particularly, endurance is a large part for a warfighter. They need endurance. Where yeah, a football player, it's a little bit of a different model. So understanding the needs of the tactical athlete and that unit and that history and that culture is very important.
[00:14:12.81] And then this is where it might be a little uncomfortable for some strength coaches listening, but I'm going to put it out there. It's more important in the tactical community that you practice what you preach than what I remember seeing or what I've seen in some of maybe the collegiate and professional sports setting. If you take that for what it's will. So I'm not saying you got to be able to do everything that the soldier can do. But if you can put a rack on and at least go a couple miles and do those sort of things, that really carries a lot of weight versus talking about what you did back in the day. That's just--
[00:14:46.62] No pun intended, right?
[00:14:48.78] Right. No pun intended. It's one of those things that if you can get out there-- and the soldiers really like to look at, hey, are you doing what you're telling me to do? And that's the same for me as a dietitian. I got to hold myself accountable when I'm out there in front of soldiers, because they're looking me up and down. And they're like, all right, yeah, you talk a good game. But are you doing it? And so you got to be able to-- within reason-- be able to uphold that end of the piece.
[00:15:21.10] There's a lot of under-resourced areas in our field in general, probably sports nutrition and on the strength and conditioning side. One thing I think about is I didn't work with a dietitian in professional baseball until well into the years that I was in the game. And so when I think about that, there was actually a process there of learning to work with a dietitian. What are the skill sets that they're bringing that oh, now I don't have to do this anymore?
[00:15:52.52] And so I want to ask you that. You know the scope of practice for a dietitian. You know the scope of practice for a strength and conditioning coach. For the times that they're in these maybe under-resourced environments, like you had to do some strength and conditioning when you were with the Ranger Regiment-- for that strength coach that maybe doesn't have access or daily access to a dietitian, what are the things they can do in the nutrition world to help their athletes or at least lead them in the right direction?
[00:16:21.33] Yeah, basic nutrition advice-- and I'm glad you brought that up because I understand that there are some strength coaches that have had to do it all. So basic nutrition advice, whenever you can outsource or get a dietitian to come in and speak to your groups, I would say that. Ask around, particularly, hey, we've got students here right now at the master's program in nutrition. We're always looking for opportunities to get them out to speak to groups. So there might even be some free resources, especially if you're near a college that has a nutrition program, where you can get some of that support.
[00:16:57.66] But otherwise, general nutrition-- lean sources of protein, getting some fruits and vegetables, controlling that intake with the athletes as much as you can. I would steer away from giving dietary supplement advice. Again, if you could bring somebody in to do that or get that from a registered dietitian, that would be the preferred route. But it is a challenge, I understand, with some strength coaches where you might not have a dietitian. And see if you can partner with any of those nutrition programs that might be around you.
[00:17:28.60] You mentioned nutrition supplements. I in the pro sports world there's been a whole evolution there, and in college sports. And there's different rules and regulations in every institution. What is that environment like in the military? Is nutritional supplementation common? Is it a big challenge that you face?
[00:17:47.96] It's common. It's a lot different than the collegiate world because we don't have the budget that those folks do in terms of, we can't-- in the current environment, we cannot purchase dietary supplements for soldiers. Now if they have a vitamin D deficiency and they get lab tested, they can get it through the pharmacy. But we don't have funds to buy dietary supplements currently.
[00:18:15.10] Now there's food funds and other things out there. So what most soldiers do is they're going to buy their dietary supplements on their own. And there's been research that show that soldiers, even elite soldiers, the more elite soldiers, actually use more dietary supplements. And to me, that's not a concern. It's more of, hey, they just care more about their health. They're looking for that edge.
[00:18:42.40] We do got to be careful in terms of some of the stuff you can get off the internet. I'm going to say, hey, prohormones, [INAUDIBLE], those sort of things is what you really, really watch out for. And then I would steer warfighters to, if you're going to use supplements, one, make sure your diet is tight. Make sure you're getting enough sleep. Get all those other factors.
[00:19:04.58] But then some of the well-researched stuff-- omega-3 fatty acids, creatine monohydrate, those basic things that are relatively cheap, that have proven to be safe, that can help with not only health and performance, but also we're talking about traumatic brain injuries, those sort of things. Those would be the things that I would steer a soldier toward if they're going to say, hey, I'm going to take dietary supplements.
[00:19:26.89] Because ultimately, if somebody's coming and saying, hey, what supplements should I take? I want to take supplements. And you say, don't take any supplements. Da da da da da da. They're just going to go find it from somebody else. So I'm like, hey, I'll reinforce the good nutrition habits. But then I'll say, if you're going to take supplements, I would recommend some omega-3 fatty acids, get your vitamin D checked, get some creatine monohydrate, those sort of things.
[00:19:50.12] It's nice to see the different specialties and disciplines, dietitians working hand-in-hand with strength and conditioning coaches. But like you mentioned, that soldier's going-- whoever there is in front of them, they're going to think that's the expert in that moment. And then they might screen through, OK, I like that answer, or I didn't, and make their decision accordingly.
[00:20:12.39] Right.
[00:20:13.55] So it's building that collaborative voice. But it's good we talk about this because I know there are going to be strength and conditioning coaches that aren't dietitians that maybe hadn't heard some of those things, or maybe just hadn't boiled it down in that such a basic way. Like OK, let's go for the most bang for your buck nutritional supplements, not just financially, but in terms of nutritional value that's actually going to be safe and effective. And we're a lot smarter than we used to be in that. So it's really encouraging to hear that both fields are really working in the same direction.
[00:20:47.90] You oversee the Baylor Nutrition Master's Program there. There's been a shift lately with education requirements for dietitians. And I've actually heard some strength coaches really interested in advancing their education into becoming an RD as well. Could you break down what that path might look like for a CSCS or someone like yourself who goes and pursues the RD today?
[00:21:15.71] Yeah. So it's really exciting times right now in terms of it used to be, you had to have a dietetics degree to get into a dietetics program to become a dietitian. Now with this future education model, which the Baylor Master's Program in Nutrition falls under that model, you can have any degree, as long as you have your certain prerequisites, your certain sciences, which is on the master's program website, which we can put in the show notes. You get those, you can have any degree, you can come into the program and get that nutrition degree and become a dietitian.
[00:21:51.87] And there's other programs like that throughout the nation. And to tell you what a big change that is, the first year we opened it up, half of our students were kinesiology majors, non-nutrition majors, which holds true today. We've got half that are non-nutrition majors and half our students are prior service. So they served in another military specialty. And now they're coming over to be a dietitian.
[00:22:16.08] I mean, Eric, I can't tell you how excited I am for this. And if there's some military folks listening, I'll give you a perspective, is, when I went to the Ranger Regiment, I was the first dietitian to be in the Ranger Regiment. I was the first dietitian to go to Ranger School, to do all those things. It was unusual.
[00:22:32.46] And now we have a Ranger Mortarman, who was a Mortarman in the Ranger Regiment, who is now going through our program to be a dietitian. So to me, I've seen it come full circle. And that's part of the reason I'm like, all right, now it's time to retire. It can't get any better than this. This is like--
[00:22:50.93] It's so cool.
[00:22:51.57] We've come full circle. We've got H2F going on. We got dietitians out there doing great things. I can hang out my hat on that.
[00:22:58.74] We're not that old, but we've seen a lot of progress in a relatively short period of time. And I love-- I mean, I think I love the pace and tempo of our field. And we always bring a lot of energy to this. But one thing, one takeaway, I think, for maybe someone coming up through the NSCA pipeline right now is, you might be looking into a [INAUDIBLE] or ERP school to study strength and conditioning for your bachelor's degree. That can be a good pathway for you to go on to become a registered dietitian if this is a career path you might be interested in.
[00:23:34.44] There's other fields, too. Sports medicine is master's level track now, as for athletic trainers. And we also have physical therapy. That's most commonly a DPT track. So exercise science, strength and conditioning is a universal skill set in a lot of these professions that it is a dedicated role. And we advocate for that at the NSCA. But it's one that can be very valuable across the board. And so this episode really highlights that in your path, man. You wanted to be a strength coach. You're still a strength coach. We love you. But you do some other things too, and that's really cool.
[00:24:08.61] No, it's been very rewarding. And the NSCA along the way has always-- it's been very beneficial in terms of being a CSCS, because it led to that tactical group and learning so much from the tactical and bringing all those people together. I mean, who was the first-- Mark Stevenson, right?
[00:24:29.67] Mm-hmm.
[00:24:29.79] He's the first tactical director. I mean, you look at the folks that were involved initially, and it was really magical. And it was so helpful in the fact that, when we were-- especially when we were standing up a program and you didn't have anybody else to look to, to reach out to those folks in the NSCA and be like, hey, this is what we're trying to do. What do you think about this? And to get that feedback.
[00:24:53.34] Yeah. If you haven't engaged with our tactical community at the NSCA, I encourage you to do that. Since coming on staff out of a traditional college, pro sports background, and then getting to go to tactical, it really opened my eyes. And I know a lot of coaches who have maybe said, hey, I'll go do something different. They really have a good time at that event.
[00:25:15.29] And Nick, we appreciate you sharing this with us today. Your background, everything, a little deep dive into just the history that you've seen in the Army and across the different military branches. What's the best way for our listeners to reach out and connect with you?
[00:25:32.89] So the best way is probably on Instagram. And then I'll give my email, is nickbarringer35@gmail.com. And so yeah, feel free. I'm always happy to chat.
[00:25:45.11] Yeah. Nick, huge asset for you, the NSCA community, especially on the tactical front. And we appreciate everything you do. We love our tactical community at the NSCA.
[00:25:56.86] Thanks for tuning in today. And special thanks to Sorinex Exercise Equipment. We appreciate their support.
[00:26:02.71] Hey, guys. It's Dr. Bryan Mann coming at you from Texas A&M University. Hey, this is a call to arms. If you feel like there's something that needs to be done, something that needs to be changed, this is your call to go ahead and sign up for the volunteer opportunities within the sigs, the different committees, or just to get involved in your local chapter. Please go to the website for more details.
[00:26:23.78] [MUSIC PLAYING]
[00:26:26.23] This was the NSCA's Coaching Podcast. The National Strength and Conditioning Association was founded in 1978 by strength and conditioning coaches to share information, resources, and help advance the profession. Serving coaches for over 40 years, the NSCA is the trusted source for strength and conditioning professionals. Be sure to join us next time.

Reporting Errors: To report errors in a podcast episode requiring correction or clarification, email the editor at publications@nsca.com or write to NSCA, attn: Publications Dept., 1885 Bob Johnson Dr., Colorado Springs, CO 80906. Your letter should be clearly marked as a letter of complaint. Please (a) identify in writing the precise factual errors in the published podcast episode (every false, factual assertion allegedly contained therein), (b) explain with specificity what the true facts are, and (c) include your full name and contact information.