Ashley Kowalewski | Overcoming Challenges by Keeping Ego in Check

After almost leaving the profession entirely, Ashley Kowalewski landed her role as an Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach at the prestigious Louisiana State University. Listen as she recounts the strength and conditioning coach who inspired her as a high-level athlete at Oklahoma State University, diverting her path away from pursuing a physical therapy career. Explore how her early experience as an NSCA intern and working with adaptive sports under the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee expanded her network and strengthened her coaching. Discover where to tap into access points that can build mentors in your corner and the importance of being relationship-oriented in a field where collaboration is key. Kowalewski also speaks about checking her ego after a difficult career experience and the challenge of starting again at the intern level. Learn her guiding principle of providing over proving and how high-quality leadership can elevate a program’s impact and staff longevity.

Connect with Ashley on Instagram at: @ashleykowalewski or by email: ashk@lsu.edu | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or LinkedIn: @ericmcmahoncscs

“That's my big thing with a lot of the athletes that get injured. I have no sympathy for you. I've trained athletes that are wheelchair-bound. I've trained athletes without a leg. Do you think it's difficult for me to train you while you're in a boot? Absolutely not. We can adapt… anything. We can make it work.” 7:05

“I don't really care what you know about the Xs and Os. We can teach that. I think anybody — if you go to any great place, you can be taught, if you're willing, and that's one thing that I want to look for. I want to look for somebody that has a growth mindset. I want to look for somebody that is great at creating relationships and maintaining relationships.” 15:20

“It's hard to just pack up your life on a whim with all that uncertainty. We like to think we're pretty tough in this field and we can put up with a lot, but we're still human.” 19:15

“I think perspective is everything, and how do we keep perspective? For me, a lot of it is not getting caught up in the ‘next.’ It's being caught up in the where I'm at right now. Be where your feet are, we tell athletes that all the time.” 34:10

[00:00:00.00] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[00:00:03.10] Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast, season eight, episode six.

[00:00:08.77] I don't really care what you know about the Xs and Os. We can teach that, right? I think anybody-- if you go to any great place, you can be taught, if you're willing, and that's one thing that I want to look for. I want to look for somebody that has a growth mindset. I want to look for somebody that is great at creating relationships and maintaining relationships.

[00:00:30.99] This is the NSCA's Coaching Podcast, where we talk to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know, but probably didn't learn in school. There's strength and conditioning, and then there's everything else.

[00:00:42.06] This is the NSCA Coaching Podcast. I'm Eric McMahon. And today, we're joined by Ashley Kowalewski. We're going to have a coaching career gut check. We all know how challenging the strength and conditioning profession can be and that it sometimes pushes us to our many limits. Sometimes, we might even consider hanging it up and trying something new, even though we've worked so hard to get into this profession.

[00:01:10.08] Ashley has some experience with that. She is an assistant strength and conditioning coach at LSU. She was an NSCA intern back in the day, before my time at the headquarters. So we can dig into her background a little bit. Ashley, welcome.

[00:01:24.75] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:26.73] Yeah, so when we've talked, you've been at a few different schools over the years, you've shared some of the ups and downs you've experienced. But your passion for strength and conditioning, it's always really aligned with your background. You were a high-level college athlete. Share that story with us.

[00:01:46.01] Sure, sure. Well, to be honest with you, I got to Oklahoma in 2010 and didn't really know what high-level training looked like. We all come out of high school with different ideas of what it means. But until you meet your strength coach, I don't think anybody really knows, because everybody's different, too.

[00:02:02.67] So I get to Oklahoma, and I meet this guy named Adam Kuehl. And immediately, I'm just like, I freaking love this dude. Like, holy moly. He's all there. He gets intense in the weight room. He gets me, like, just juiced up to lift. And I was like, man, I've never had that. He's teaching me from the ground up, like power-- you know, what's a power clean? All these things. And so he gets me excited about training at 5:45 AM. And, like, that's-- that's kind of cool.

[00:02:33.01] Eventually, at Oklahoma, I go in and I start making my transition into being a thrower. And Adam was a thrower. And so he threw at University of Arizona. So we just kind of bonded on a whole other level. I'm like, I think the guy is so cool. And I love what he's teaching me. He's helping me really understand what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and educating me along the way.

[00:02:53.90] And he ended up being somebody that I really-- not only did I get to look up to just because he was my strength coach and he was a strong dude, still training, doing all these things. But later on, he actually was a big connection. And he's part of the reason that I got funneled into, hey, there's this opportunity at Arizona. So he helped me out a lot, figuring out that I wanted to be a strength coach in the first place.

[00:03:15.49] But then furthering on in my career, we stayed in touch. And he had gone overseas to Germany for a while. I think he's now back in Tucson. But he's gone and worked for Sorinex. He's gone and continued to work for the army or one of those military branches. And he's really-- he was really the reason that I took that first step into becoming a strength coach.

[00:03:38.79] I like that. The relationship with your strength coach as a student athlete inspired you to take the next step. Did you have a career plan in mind when you went to college?

[00:03:51.63] Oh, yeah, I wanted to do PT. Man, I thought--

[00:03:53.97] I got you.

[00:03:54.39] Like, I was ready to go to physical therapy school. I even got a job at one point as a tech, because you have to do all these things to get into school to make your resume look great.

[00:04:03.30] Yeah.

[00:04:05.49] So I started working in a PT outpatient clinic. Oh, my gosh. I've never been so bored in all my life. Like, it's one of those things that, like, if you know me, if anybody's ever had a conversation with me, I'm pretty high-strung. And it just came off in that point where I was like, man, these people-- they're trying to walk. Like, they're trying to do like the most basic of things. And I think that PTs are fantastic humans for what they do in the outpatient, post surgery, whatever it is that you do. If you're in sports PT, yahoo, yay. But I was just like, I don't know if I can do this.

[00:04:44.59] And getting into PT school was a whole other deal. So I got wait-listed. And I was like, I don't even know if I'm going to be able to make this journey. And then in the meantime, presented that-- a lot of people were like, have you ever thought about being a strength coach? And I was like, no, I-- no, but let's look into that.

[00:05:01.64] Yeah.

[00:05:01.72] And so that's kind of where we went from there. I had a weird gap year. I had an accident. Long story short, I got put in the hospital for a while and was just really not doing much. And that was when it really was presented to me like, hey, you're going to get your master's. How about you go get your master's in kinesiology? And I had a real, real heart for working with adaptive populations.

[00:05:24.20] So I had a lot of, like wheelchair athletes, a lot of blind, and really athletes that were debilitated in some way. And that's what kind of pushed me into wanting to work with special populations. And that's how-- actually how my career started was working a lot with adapative sport. And before I ever got into collegiate at all, I was working with adaptive sports. And I thought that was going to be my career path.

[00:05:48.94] And then I went to-- when you're trying to figure out how to be a strength coach, and somebody says, how about you start at your certifying organization, I'm like, that's a great idea. So I applied to the NSCA, got my internship there. And then was pulled on full time after my internship.

[00:06:04.56] And split time, truly, between there and the Olympic Training Center, going back and forth. And then had the opportunity to work with adaptive athletes at the Training Center. And that was absolutely incredible. One of the best things I've ever done for myself because it furthered me along as a strength coach.

[00:06:19.38] We actually have an episode coming up with one of the coaches over at USOPC on the adaptive sports side. And they do phenomenal work, getting to see what strength and conditioning looks in a completely-- it's really a completely different environment the way you apply senses in coaching, coaching cues.

[00:06:45.24] Do you feel like that experience-- I mean, you work in big college athletics now. Do you feel like that experience sharpened your skills to be able to apply that even on another level when you're back working with sport populations, baseball, basketball, volleyball, whatever it may be?

[00:07:04.01] Without a doubt. Anybody-- and that's my big thing with a lot of the athletes that get injured. I have no sympathy for you. I've trained athletes that are wheelchair-bound. I've trained athletes without a leg. Do you think it's difficult for me to train you while you're in a boot? Like, absolutely not. We can adapt-- and that's one of my biggest things is that I tell them we can adapt anything, anything. We can make it work. I've seen some crazy stuff be done.

[00:07:27.87] And truly, my time at the Training Center, that was-- just the opportunities there for my growth were endless. Because working with Sam Gardner, working with-- I mean, so many people truly that just were in and out on a daily basis, that some people I never saw again. There were some coaches that came in with teams.

[00:07:45.87] And I would watch the way that they trained their adapted athletes or just athletes in general. It didn't matter. I was able to learn so much just listening, truly. I wouldn't really have to be involved in any of these sessions to learn. But watching, watching their set up, watching the way they communicated with blind athletes, that was a big thing of, how do you demonstrate something to somebody who can't watch you? That's a big thing.

[00:08:11.29] So I actually took all of those things that made-- that I thought made me better, and I've pushed it into our internship. So in the internship programs that I've been part of, especially here at LSU, we talk a lot amongst our staff. What can we all contribute to this program? And I said, I will 100% die on that hill that me working with adapted athletes made me better, so how do-- let's do it.

[00:08:35.53] So I leave out the blind athletes for the most part because we haven't had that opportunity to push that in the NCAA yet, although I think it would be amazing. But anyway, well, I come up with scenarios, and we go-- this athlete, you cannot speak to this athlete at all. We have athletes come in all the time that don't speak English. So imagine that you have zero communicative-- you have nothing with this athlete. You can't communicate with them at all verbally. So how will you demonstrate? How will you get them to understand what you need from them out of this exercise?

[00:09:07.86] Same deal for an athlete that is wheelchair-bound, or an athlete that has a boot on their leg. How are you going to put them through this workout in a way that makes sense? How are you going to make it accessible for them? You either live by that or you die hard. Because it's one of those things that will really make you think. But I will believe 100%-- I will stand on that, that that made me and continues to make me a better coach, just simply because it makes you think.

[00:09:38.18] Yeah. If that is an area of the field, as a listener to this that maybe you're just really not familiar with at all, what may connect you to it is when you studied strength and conditioning and you took your special populations class that is common at most kinesiology or strength and conditioning programs, adaptive sports or wheelchair sports, that might have been only a day or two unit that you covered within a whole semester, depending on when you went to school.

[00:10:11.46] I know for me, it wasn't a huge emphasis. But we did actually have some access to athletes in wheelchairs, and that did really open my eyes at the time. I didn't really realize how much opportunity there was. Maybe there wasn't as much at that time as there is today. But it is encouraging for sport, but also for our profession, the growth in different areas and opportunities for coaches to find their niche, find their passion.

[00:10:43.60] I mean, you found a passion in an area of sport you're not currently working in, but it still fuels and informs your thinking in the way you are training that next generation of coach. This stage of your career, there are obviously some key career stages that happen for young coaches all the way up through. You were an intern at the NSCA and at the Olympic Training Center. You did a fellow position at Michigan.

[00:11:15.12] These are really pivotal stages where you're spreading your wings, you're all over the country, you're challenging yourself in different environments, you're growing your network. What advice do you have for aspiring coaches? Maybe they're in their undergrad years and they're looking ahead to those first two, three years in the field when maybe they don't quite have their certification yet, or they just get it and they can get out there and get some hands-on experience. What advice do you have for them in seeking those opportunities out?

[00:11:48.73] Start seeking people out. That is one of the reasons that I ended up at the University of Michigan. Ashley Jackson was on the NSCA Podcast way back, not the one that you did most recently. But when she was still in Michigan, I listened to that too. She's my mentor. I will ask her advice on literally everything. She's one of those people that will always be in my life. She's incredibly important to me.

[00:12:14.63] But before she was in my life, she was on the NSCA Podcast. And I was editing said podcast for naughty words, and bleeps, and stuff because that was one of my internship duties. And so I'm sitting there, listening to this podcast and I'm-- it was her and several other people that were on the podcast after National.

[00:12:33.24] And so I'm listening. And I was like-- she's saying some stuff and she's got a cool name, great name, so let me just reach out. But before I did, I talked to Scott Caulfield, who was my boss at the time. And I said, hey, what do you think about me reaching out to her? And he said, oh, do it, you'll love that conversation. Reach out to her.

[00:12:52.03] And so I just emailed her. And I was like, hey, this is who I am. I am at the NSCA right now. I listened to your podcast. I really like this, this, and this. Could you help me out with next steps? I would love to get on a phone call with you. Is there time? I understand you're busy. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I didn't know at that time that people were busy.

[00:13:14.31] But I did, and I got on a literal random phone call with this person I don't know. And she called me on her way home from work one day and said, I have 30 minutes before I get home, and then I'm going to write, I'm done, that's my boundary. Cool. So I took those 30 minutes and just talked about, what do I need to do? What do I need to do to be here, just to get my foot in the door, really? And she told me, and I did it all. And I followed-- and I checked back in with her. Hey, did it, and move on from there. So it wasn't just a, hey, go do these things, and then I skirted off and never spoke to her again.

[00:13:53.14] Maybe a month later, Michigan lacrosse came down and played U Colorado Boulder. And I was like, I'm not missing that opportunity. So I said, Coach, you're going to be in the area. Can I come up and can we go to dinner and talk and whatever, just actually meet you face-to-face? And she was like, yeah, like, come on.

[00:14:12.92] So I did. I drove up. And it's an hour and 30 minutes, whatever it was, for me to get up there. And I got up there and had-- we had dinner and just sat and talked. And that was the initial relationship that got me to the point of, hey, we're going to have a position open, do you want to interview for it? Like, that was how that all started.

[00:14:33.38] So had I not made-- I mean, I don't know what would have happened to me, truly, or where I would have gone had I not-- that was my first real relationship that I created within collegiate athletics. At the National Conference, I met the whole staff. I met [? Lou. ?] Everybody but Mike, I think, I met at the National Conference that year. And it went from there. They called me in, I don't know, August, and were like, we have this position opening. What do you think? Can you do it? Heck yeah, I think this is what I want to do.

[00:15:02.63] So that is how it all started for me. I don't think that that's the way everybody's journey goes. But I do firmly believe that the more relationships that you make, the more what people know you're about, really-- and this is something that I had a conversation with one of my interns about last week. I don't really care what you know about the Xs and Os. We can teach that. I think anybody-- if you go to any great place, you can be taught, if you're willing, and that's one thing that I want to look for.

[00:15:32.48] I want to look for somebody that has a growth mindset. I want to look for somebody that is great at creating relationships and maintaining relationships. And I want somebody who has a low ego. Because at the end of the day, you're going to get-- I've been looked at multiple times and told that I'm dumb or that I don't know anything.

[00:15:49.24] Because there are people out there that are smarter than me. There are people out there that are better than me, and that's OK. And being able to take that information in and not take it personally and move on and really grow as you learn from different relationships and different situations is something that I look for. And if I find somebody that can do those things, that's somebody that I'm going to deem hireable, and let's go from there.

[00:16:11.87] Now, you can be amazing at what you do in the weight room and unable to maintain a relationship, unable to read the room, unable to connect with people, with athletes, with coaches, with ATs. I don't really know that I want that right in a group that-- I love the people that I work with, and that's-- I want to constantly-- not to the point of getting annoying, but, like, I want to be around them. I don't want to go out there and be like, ew, like, I don't want to hang out with you guys today, gross. I want to learn with them. I want to grow with them. I want to learn from them.

[00:16:45.80] Anyway, so that's kind of what I look for and that's what I think people get on phone calls and just immediately start asking about what we do, why? Like, ask a little bit more about somebody. What makes me passionate? Why am I still in this field? I almost left this field. I was almost done with collegiate strength and conditioning, and that's an entire other story. But, like, I was almost done, done.

[00:17:07.69] And not a lot of people know that, and that's OK. I haven't been real out there about it. And now, I'm more willing to talk about it. But it almost was over for me last year. And the reason I stay was people, the people that I have here, the people in my network, the people that have been around me and consistently pushing me to grow, and to be better, and to think in a different way. And so that's kind of where I'm at. And that's what I encourage other people to do, is create lasting relationships.

[00:17:42.08] So I want to dig into some of those hardships a little bit, but just to piggyback on some of the things you were saying. And I think this is true. There's a bunch of you former NSCA interns out in the field right now. And one thing that that internship and other internships like that, the Olympic Training Center, other internship programs really do is they give you really great access points into the field. For you, that was Ashley Jackson.

[00:18:14.97] And now, there's a lot more access points now than there were years ago. For example, this podcast, it'll have your contact info on there. Someone could have that same type of conversation that you had with Ashley Jackson just by reaching out after this episode. So if you don't think of a podcast as an access point or an entry point into the profession, maybe it's a different way to think of it.

[00:18:42.06] But the other thing that you talked about, you weren't just Going in thinking, oh, what's the next job for me? Maybe in the back of your mind, you're thinking, I need these connections so I can find out where my next opportunity is. But there's always a risk, right? Like, you don't know-- it's tough for any of us to just pick up and say, OK, I'm going to go work at University of Michigan, not knowing anyone there or anything about their program, or if it's a good place, or all these different things. It's hard to just pack up your life on a whim with all that uncertainty.

[00:19:19.89] We like to think we're pretty tough in this field and we can put up with a lot, but we're still human. And I know how hard it was for me coming from the Northeast and knowing, hey, there's not a lot of jobs that I can get experience in the Northeast in strength and conditioning. I'm going to have to go pretty much everywhere else to be and stay in this profession. That's tough when you have parents, when you have family, siblings, whatever it may be, that you're close to. Friends, people you went to school with, you're not going to see them as much.

[00:19:50.65] So these access points actually give you the confidence. And they give you something to grab on to that allows you to overcome that risk or that fear that you have to take a chance and be like, OK, it may or may not be perfect, but I can-- I know I can gain this here because of the conversations I'm having, or how receptive they are to taking a call from me, or just how they talk about these experiences of the way they train their athletes. There's a lot of things that you can listen to when you're on a phone call and it fuel how your motivation, your willingness to take a chance. And so that really never ends. And that's truly what the NSCA tries to bring people at our events, podcasts, all these different areas.

[00:20:43.21] And pretty cool you edited the podcast. I didn't know that was one of your intern responsibilities. We have a really great podcast team here at the NSCA. And it's something that's evolved during COVID, going all virtual now. It used to be all in person. And just the mechanics and the behind the scenes to be able to do that, that's something coming out of the coaching world I had to learn a lot about when I came into this. There's that growth of skills and knowledge that is ever present in what we do.

[00:21:17.08] No doubt.

[00:21:18.07] So you mentioned some of the hardships and challenges. And this was at a time in your career when you'd kind of made it through the threshold of you weren't the junior staff member anymore. You weren't an intern or a fellow. You were an assistant strength coach at a major Division 1 university. You had a couple different stops under your belt at that point; Arizona, Mizzou. Now you're at LSU. Speak to some of those hardships. What kind of pushed you almost to your breaking point?

[00:21:54.40] Sure. I want to start by saying that I think that the NSCA-- I think one of the beautiful things about the NSCA is that they opened up a wealth of opportunities that do not just include the collegiate athletic aspect. A lot of the interns that I was actually in with, some are in the private sector. Some are in the tactical sector. Some are, like, with me in the collegiate setting.

[00:22:20.23] And I think that there's-- it's awesome because I was-- I was opened up to so many-- I can name off a lot of people in the professional settings, a lot of people in collegiate, a lot of people in tactical. And there is room for everyone. It's not one of those things where it's like, oh, I don't want to tell this person about this because--

[00:22:38.01] There's so many opportunities. And I think that for me personally, when I got into collegiate, and like you said, I got over the hard stuff, I got-- OK I'm getting I'm getting somewhere. My ego would not let me step away from collegiate athletics because I didn't want to be one of those people that couldn't do it.

[00:22:59.84] And looking back on that, I laugh because that's hilarious because that would not have taken away from anything. Whatever was in my head at the time of, like, I wanted to-- I'm not that important. That's the thing that, for me, it was like I have to be in collegiate. I've worked so hard to be in the collegiate setting. And I want to do this at this level because, because, because, because.

[00:23:27.45] Why, right? And that's what I had to ask myself at the end of the day was, why is it so important that I remain in collegiate athletics? Why would I not be as valuable helping somebody live their life, helping somebody pick up their grandkid, helping somebody walk without-- walk, or run, or train without pain? Why is that not just as valuable to me?

[00:23:47.96] So all that being said, I'll walk you back to sort of how I got to this place. I got somewhere where I didn't really have community. I didn't really have what I wanted where I was. And I wasn't a good fit, really, truly. That's kind of where I'm at. That's what I'm going to say. I think the way that you talk about the bad things that happen to you should not be much different than the way you talk about the good things. You can learn from everything. And it's your perspective as to whether you want to learn or not. And for me, sometimes the learning comes in the hindsight.

[00:24:22.32] I understand now there's a lot more that I learned, but I was ready to exit the field and not look back. There were so many things about what I was doing that I did not enjoy anymore. Working with athletes was never one of them. It's just everything else. Oh, stuff you're having to deal with on the back end. The programming and the training, which is a majority of what we do, coaching on the floor, not an issue. But for me personally, it was just-- I wasn't able to do other things that I really wanted to do. And again, I had it in my brain that I couldn't do it any other way. I couldn't do anything else.

[00:25:00.85] And so when I resigned from the position that I was in-- I stepped in back in July-- I had nowhere else to go. And I did not have any other jobs waiting for me. And I did not have any other opportunities waiting for me. And so I thought to myself, well, I'm just going to exit collegiate athletics, then. I'm done. I don't want to ever have an experience like I had. And a lot of that was truly-- I mean, that's on me to look back on that and go like, OK, well, what did I learn during that time? What was I able to reflect on that makes me better moving forward?

[00:25:33.75] So I love my people. The people that have stayed in my network throughout all these years-- Ashley Jackson is one of them. She's been in my corner for, I mean, five years now, five, six-- yeah, six years, seven years. I don't know. It's been a long time. But I can't tell you how much I appreciate her. And she was one of the people telling me, step away, step away from the position you're in. We know you.

[00:25:58.56] And one of the things that scared me, Eric, was I didn't have another thing lined up. So I was like, who's going to want me after I've sat on my butt and done nothing? And she was like, oh, you're going to sit on your butt and do nothing? I said, well, no, but I don't have a job. So what's that look like? And for her to know me and to know how to communicate with me through that and say, no, that's not-- that's not the case. Let's talk about it. Let's figure out what you can do.

[00:26:23.82] So in that time that I didn't have a job from July of '23 on, I was thinking, I don't know what I'm going to do, truly. I think I should just go do site visits to all the people that I love. Why not? Why the heck not? So I get out and I start-- I call Marci Hoppa at Mississippi State and I'm like, I'm going to come by. I called down here to Katie Guillory. I said, I'm going to come by. I've never been to LSU. So that's where I decided to start. Pack my dogs up, drove down here. And for, more or less, I was just thinking, I'll just hang out with that staff, get to know them. I don't really know them that well. Let's grow the network while I have nothing really truly else going on.

[00:27:00.88] So I did, and I got here. And I met Mel Moore Seal, who is our director here. She actually walked in the weight room. And I was talking to one of her athletes because that athlete had been one of my athletes at Michigan that I had gotten really close with. And I walked in. And she was like, who is this? Like, who the heck is this girl that's talking to my kid? Like, why is she in here?

[00:27:22.56] And I got to sit down and talk with her and just-- she doesn't have time to do that kind of thing. She's a director at a large SEC Division I school. And she talked to me for two hours, and not about what I've done, not about all the cool certifications I have. Just talk to me and connected with me.

[00:27:47.71] And I told her how miserable I was. And I told her how I didn't have a job currently and that I resigned. And she looked at me funny and she said, anyway I could get you to come work here part time? And I was like, oh, part time, another, like, stab in the chest. Because I'm like, god, I'm not going to make it back in to this profession. That's a goofy thing to say, truly. Knowing the people I know and the people that I have in my corner, that was a dumb thing for me to ever be worried about, but I digress.

[00:28:26.50] After talking to her, I said, I would just want to work for you, yes. Like, absolutely, 100%. So I think my title-- I think it was an intern title, truly. I think I stepped down from having an associate director's position into an intern part-time position here at LSU.

[00:28:45.04] And I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and tell you that I was like, yay, this is the best ever. Like, somebody called me an intern one day, and I just excused myself into another room and burst into tears because my ego was so impacted by that and being called an intern after all the work that I had put in over the past seven years that I couldn't take it.

[00:29:08.85] Now, looking back, that's super duper embarrassing because there was no need for me to be that caught up in that title because it was goofy, because I had people and still have people who believe in me. And that's the perspective that you get in hindsight is that you're goofy for being upset about that.

[00:29:25.68] But that's where I was. I was so broken and I was so in-- I was in such a terrible place and such had such a terrible mindset that I thought, man, I'm just taking the biggest step back, when that couldn't have been farther from the truth. I took the biggest leap forward and I have not been happier since.

[00:29:44.31] So I started off the fall here at LSU, part-time, working with baseball. But then my director, Mel, said, I don't want you to be just over there, overseeing under Jeremy McMillan. I want you to have your own team still. So would you mind-- would you take women's tennis? Absolutely, 100%. Let's go.

[00:30:03.75] So I trained women's tennis all through the fall. I had program responsibilities for them. That kept me sharp. It kept me-- I was still continuing to learn different technologies they had here at LSU that I had never had before and continuing to learn and grow from the other coaches around me.

[00:30:17.95] And sure enough, come the end of December, Mel said, I need to make some changes. The volleyball coach wants to meet with you, please go to her office and figure out a time. And I did. And she said, I want you-- I want you to be my strength coach, make it so. And here I am, six months later at LSU, full-time, and in a position where not only have I never been so happy, my life has never been so balanced. I've never been-- I've never felt more part of everything.

[00:30:55.07] I feel like I'm valued. I feel like I'm respected. I feel like I-- not only am I part of a team and a contributing member of a team, but I get to just feel like family. And that's a big thing for me because I'm single and I am far away from my family. And it comes to this point where you have all these people and you want it to feel like family, but that's a lie. Because everybody has their own families, and you are here. Nobody's going to love you more than you love you type thing.

[00:31:27.01] But I'll tell you what, I feel so incredibly blessed to be here at this school and to have taken the chances that I did to get here. I can't sing Mel's praises enough because I think she's amazing. I think she takes on so many things and does incredible things for other people and makes sure that she treats her people well to keep them. And that's a hard thing to find. And I have been so impressed and so just overjoyed truly to be where I am right now and to not have given it up.

[00:32:04.84] It seems like you've learned to have more confidence in your abilities by really just taking a step away, challenging yourself. I mean your ego and putting yourself in a pretty uncomfortable situation and just dealing with that on a daily basis, but that you land on your feet by persevering through that a little bit, really learning to not let your job title or your current employment status impact your coaching identity, your identity as a coach, your coaching process, or the way you talk about your role as a coach.

[00:32:51.61] And it gave you some time to do that. I think we're-- it is pretty scary to step away and to-- we work really hard to get these jobs, so to step away from one is like-- I mean, you can't imagine ever being in a situation where you're going to do that. So I can feel with that. And I think it's something that-- it's a great-- it's great for coaches to hear that, because someone out there is probably going through a hard time.

[00:33:20.67] Mhm.

[00:33:21.68] Someone out there is probably in a great situation, too. And it may or may not be that way forever. And so it's one of those things that you always need to know how to deal with a situation maybe a little before you get thrown into that. So would you say you've learned a little bit more of a process, or are you doing anything now that-- you're at LSU. You've kind of reached a good place, a destination that you can build and continue to build your career. How are you dealing with this growth and these challenges now to just to be a little better suited for the next set of challenges or whatever those may be?

[00:34:08.82] Sure. I think perspective is everything and how do we keep perspective. For me, a lot of it is being-- like, not getting caught up in the next. It's being caught up in the where I'm at right now. Be where your feet are, we tell athletes that all the time. Because they've got this, that, and the other test to take. And the boyfriend's doing this, and the girlfriend's doing this, and their parents are doing this. And who knows what's going on? NIL, holy moly. LSU. We've got some massive NIL deals going on.

[00:34:41.11] But at the end of the day, it comes down to that perspective, my ability to relate, my ability to communicate with them, and my ability to stay grounded and centered. And it truly-- I go back all the time. I have a sticky note that I look at on my desk every day from when I was at the University of Michigan, that came from Ashley Jackson herself. And it just says "provide over-proof."

[00:35:03.84] And that's been something that I've had to continually remind myself of. I don't need to prove to anybody that I deserve to be here. I don't need to prove to anybody that I know, well, this is what it's doing because I have to do it this way. And I have so-- I have nothing to prove. I was going to say I have so little to prove, but I have nothing to prove.

[00:35:22.91] My job is to provide, to provide the best programming possible, to provide the best, really, presence possible. My job is to provide a training environment that is dang near optimal for what we got going on. My job is to provide adaptations when needed. My job is to provide a little encouragement, or a little discipline, or a little whatever it is. My job is to provide. So provide over-proof in everything that I do. And I think that really moving forward into whatever comes next--

[00:35:55.30] I don't know what the future holds, truly. LSU is a wonderful place. There are very few places now that I'm willing to pick up and go work. I'm not going to lie. Institutionally, I think I can count out five places that I know who have people in charge that I want to work for, and I'm at one of them. So it just comes to the point of staying grounded, staying focused, continuing to stay hungry, and not only at the expectations that I have for myself, but the environment around me. Making sure that I am in a place where I'm getting better, where other people are getting better, and that I'm still able to maintain the boundaries that allow me to be a human being.

[00:36:40.80] A thing I think about-- you mentioned this-- just with your thought process about if you ever went somewhere else, where would it, like-- where would you want to be? And that's something that we all do as coaches. But I do agree with you that at some point, it goes back to, who's there that I want to work for? And we're almost-- I feel like as a field, we are craving great leadership in this profession. And essentially in our generationally, we are that next wave of that leadership for the next generation.

[00:37:13.61] But even the-- depending on where you're at, if you're in the middle of your career and you're not in the lead director role at a major university, we want to work for people that unite a staff, that can integrate across a department. There's a lot more knowledge around leadership principles today within strength and conditioning that is really valued by us. Some of us that have maybe experienced the highs and the lows that we see the value of a good leader. And it goes back to what you said early about making connections with people that if you have any reason to talk to them--

[00:37:59.73] Hey, man, I can think of this one kid. He was walking around at the last coaches conference. And I'd see him having these conversations. And it was-- and they were kind of the awkward, like, "I don't know you" conversations. And he was just so young. And he was going up to Bryan Mann, and Joe Kenn, and any-- I mean, all these big dogs in the field.

[00:38:22.64] And by the end, he had-- I just happened to see this kid everywhere. And he was just having these conversations all throughout the event. And at one point, I pulled him aside and talked to him for a little bit. And I was just like, what you're doing, it's pretty brave, man. Going up and having that-- it might be a really tough or awkward conversation.

[00:38:43.54] | don't know what you're walking into or what someone's dealing with when you're just talking to somebody, but that's the way to do it. Go challenge yourself. Get in front of somebody. Get on the-- get on the phone, that might have been the only way back in the day. But there's so many other ways now with social media.

[00:39:02.22] Yeah.

[00:39:02.59] A lot of people want to put more information out there. Or, they want to be contacted and have people ask them questions, but maybe they don't know how to seek it out. So a great mentee can almost fuel a really positive mentorship type experience that takes the field forward. And that's something that maybe wasn't always what the NSCA had talked about.

[00:39:26.04] But mentorship, and those types of relationships, and partnerships is really where we're going on the professional development side. That is the value of being a member of the NSCA is you're going to have more access points to members of the profession, members who have been at different institutions or gotten out of different positions and gone into different areas of the field. There's just so many-- there's so many smart people in our profession.

[00:39:56.65] And I'll end this just by saying that learning to have confidence in your abilities, something that comes through in your experience. But by connecting with the right people, that reinforces that confidence in you and that, OK, I do know what I'm talking about because I'm hearing the same thing when I'm talking to all these great coaches, or I get a little positive affirmation, or a little feedback that I can adjust my approach and be right where I need to be. So those are really good take home points for young coaches, coaches that maybe need a little bit more positivity in their experience.

[00:40:38.35] Ashley, I think you really peeled back the onion for us today and shared-- we got pretty personal with some of this. And I think it's-- I think it's brave to say you almost gave this profession up. You pushed yourself to your breaking point, and you've persevered through that. And we're really glad you're here with us and you're here on the podcast. Maybe full circle for you that you're able to now be the guest on the podcast and you don't actually have to edit your own podcast. We'll have someone else do that for you.

[00:41:10.46] Dang, I was looking forward to that one.

[00:41:12.42] I know, but it's nice to know that you have that skill set because I'm always looking for people when things fall through. But, no, we appreciate you. What is the best way for our listeners to reach out, connect with you if they want to ask some questions?

[00:41:28.32] Email is usually pretty good. Ashk@lsu.edu. Pretty simple. I didn't make anybody spell out my last name on that one. Instagram, super easy. I am not going to gatekeep anything. I'll always send videos to everybody that I-- anybody that reaches out, asking what we're doing, why we're doing it, whatever. I'm pretty open about all that stuff. I don't post a lot on my own about my own athletes' training, but I'm never opposed to-- I've had people reach out and ask what we're doing, and I share it. I don't believe that there's some secret that I'm doing that you're not. If we can make people better, let's make people better.

[00:42:08.80] And then, I actually am in the-- my work cell. I'm in the process of, like, diving through all of that. It's nice to have separation in my life. But I do have a work cell, and I'm always open to get a call on that. And that number is 225-615-6898. And so if somebody shoots me a text and says, hey, you got time to get on this phone call? That way, you don't got to DM the Instagram or send the email, just go straight to the phone call. Give me a call and figure it out.

[00:42:39.58] No, I like that. Again, appreciate you being with us. Listeners, strength and conditioning coaching, it can be a gut check. We know this. We know what we're signing up for when we get into this. But we don't know what it's going to feel like all the time when we get there. We hope this episode maybe helps you deal with some of those challenges or that thought process. If you're going through a hard time, you can always reach out to Ashley. We'll put her information in the show notes. You can reach out to me. My contact info will be there as well.

[00:43:13.49] We want to support you from the NSCA. And even just both of us, we have a great network of others who can also provide support. But we love coaching. This profession helps a lot of people. It provides for families. It brings our community together.

[00:43:33.20] And really, we are the glue at our institutions, at our universities and our departments. And as long as we can stay positive about our work, we can continue to do that good and keep promoting the field for what it is. So, Ashley, thanks again. Everyone, thanks for tuning in. And special Thanks to Sorinex Exercise Equipment. We appreciate their support.

[00:43:54.49] Hey, this is Kenna Smoak Minnichi, the 2024 Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year Award recipient. You just listened to an episode on the NSCA Coaching Podcast. Go Army. Beat Navy.

[00:44:05.98] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[00:44:09.32] This was the NSCA's Coaching Podcast. The National Strength and Conditioning Association was founded in 1978 by strength and conditioning coaches to share information, resources, and help advance the profession. Serving coaches for over 40 years, the NSCA is the trusted source for strength and conditioning professionals. Be sure to join us next time.

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