by Eric McMahon, MEd, CSCS,*D, TSAC-F,*D, RSCC*E, and Whitney Tramel, MS, CSCS,*D, TSAC-F,*D, RSCC
Coaching Podcast
April 2026
Want to break into tactical strength and conditioning? Start by understanding the physical and stress demands of tactical work. Whitney Tramel explains what coaches need to know before stepping into this space. Drawing on her experience across military, police, and fire settings, she outlines the training qualities tactical professionals need to stay ready. She also discusses the growing focus on “holistic health.” In her view, that means looking at the whole individual and supporting longevity across a demanding career. As Tactical Program Manager at the National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) and a PhD candidate studying stress physiology, Tramel connects research with the realities of tactical coaching. She also addresses a side many coaches are not ready for: tactical athletes often trust their strength coach with conversations that reach far beyond training. Learn what the role requires, what coaches often miss, and how to enter the tactical field with clarity.
Reach out to Whitney by email: whitney.tramel@nsca.com | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs and LinkedIn: @ericmcmahoncscs
Looking to enter the tactical space or keep growing in it?
Explore the Tactical Strength and Conditioning Facilitator® (TSAC-F®) certification and join us at 2026 NSCA Tactical Annual Training in Orlando this August 17 – 20
“Maybe there are times throughout the year we can focus more on one than the other. But I think we're really doing people a disservice if we only choose to focus on one at a time. We have a police officer that might be at a desk or two sitting in his cop car all day, but when he needs to chase after someone, he needs to chase after someone, and he doesn't know when that time is going to come. So he needs to be ready to do that at any moment.” 7:40
“Is it required? No. Do I think that it shows that you care and are making efforts towards learning? Absolutely. Secondary to that, it's police officers, firefighters, military personnel, service members who want to bring physical fitness, strength and conditioning, human performance to their department, to their unit, and essentially be a force multiplier...” 19:00
“There's so much research on what the physical and stress demands are of these jobs. So do the research and show up to your first interview knowing without a shadow of a doubt what you're working with. [...] I understand this is what I'm working with. I understand these are some things that I might see in this role. And here's what I plan to do to kind of help that. And I think those are ways to really help you get a job in the space of that's kind of what you're looking for.” 23:05
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;00
Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast season nine, episode 23. There's so much research on what the physical and stress demands are of these jobs. So do the research also. And and show up to your first interview knowing without a shadow of a doubt what you're working last. Because I think that's where you kind of get picked apart is if you're like, oh, I do, you know, just worked with like athletes and and I think the athlete is similar in this way.
00;00;28;00 - 00;00;48;15
I think you should go into your interview like, hey, I've done my research. I understand this is what I'm working with. I understand these are some things that I might see in this role, and here's what I plan to do to kind of help that. And and I think those are ways to to really help you get a job in the space of that's kind of what you're looking for.
00;00;48;17 - 00;01;14;11
This is the NSCAs Coaching Podcast, where we talked to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know, but probably didn't learn in school, their strength and conditioning. And then there's everything else. This is the NSCA coaching podcast. Hey everyone, I'm your host, Eric McMahon, NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager. And today we're diving into one of the most rewarding and rapidly growing corners of our field tactical strength and conditioning.
00;01;14;13 - 00;01;35;19
If you're a coach looking to transition from sport into working with military, law enforcement, firefighters or other first responders, or if you've already been working in the tactical space and you want to level up this episode is for you. We're joined today by a new member of our team here at the NSCA headquarters, Whitney Tramel. She's our Tactical Program Manager.
00;01;35;20 - 00;01;54;14
Whitney, welcome. Glad to be here. I feel like I've always listened to the coaching podcast, and I'm officially on it now. Yeah, you're a big deal now. This is awesome. Excited to learn about your background. Why don't you just dive in? Tell us a little bit about your journey. Yeah. So, man, it's like, yeah, we could go really long or we could keep it really short.
00;01;54;16 - 00;02;17;04
I'll try to go. A long story short, as much as I can. Funny enough, I started. I don't know if I ever told you this. I started in undergrad as a political science pre-law major. And quickly realized I was not what I wanted to do. Took to. I went to my TCU for my undergrad and, was pre major figured out I like sports, I like science, actually.
00;02;17;04 - 00;02;44;02
Science makes sense. So that's what I ended up doing. I got my degree in exercise science. Thought I wanted to be a physical therapist. Shout out. And, I actually worked in a physical therapist clinic, for about a year after undergrad and was not having the time of my life. And so, had a professor in undergrad, Doctor Oliver, who recommended strength and conditioning, got my CSCS, came to Colorado for my masters, which is where I'm at.
00;02;44;02 - 00;03;02;11
Jayden's. And if you're unfamiliar with Jada's, he's a legend, within the NSCA, but also in the tactical space. And a lot of his research is out in that space. And so I came in like a guinea pig saying, you know, I'm really open to whatever opportunities are here. You know, I just know that I have to have my masters to get those opportunities.
00;03;02;13 - 00;03;23;02
And so he recommended an internship with ten Special Forces Group, which was kind of my first exposure to the tactical population. And I'll briefly mention my dad was a DEA agent, and he passed when I was younger. And so it was kind of cool to recognize I can make that tie, of working with the tactical population, in a way.
00;03;23;02 - 00;03;46;07
And so one thing led to another. I did a couple internships, as all coaches do, and then, got into coaching in the tactical space. I spent time working with police, military and fire, mostly with military. But I've definitely covered my bases there. And then now I've moved more into that education space. Not just in this program manager position, but I've been working on my PhD.
00;03;46;09 - 00;04;09;16
And so my research there is and stress and stress physiology and just examining high stress tasks and environments that tactical personnel might find themselves in. I mean, that it's really interesting to hear your background. Obviously, you know, you mentioned your dad, you have a personal connection to the tactical space, and you grew up with it, and now it's something you get to do every day.
00;04;09;18 - 00;04;29;04
You're getting your PhD, you're working here at the NSCA. You really get to pour into the tactical field. And you've been very involved with the NSCA really your entire career. That's really one of the unique benefits of going to school here in Colorado Springs. Getting to know Jay. He's been a member of our board. He's an active member of the NSCA.
00;04;29;06 - 00;04;55;08
Anyone here at the headquarters know Jay does really well. So what are some of the big topics you're seeing in the tactical space right now? Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing that comes to mind is like topics and maybe not SEC related, as just the contracting stuff and everything that's going on with that. But, you know, if I do look more at the performance side of things, I think holistic health is becoming really big.
00;04;55;12 - 00;05;20;19
And I really think that Special Operations piloted that brought that to light. You know, they had it was called soar at the time and just referenced as code is now, and they had teams working within special operations units that had strength coaches, dietitians, physical therapists, athletic trainers, mental performance specialist, you name it. If you're, a professional in the human performance field, you're working with these groups.
00;05;20;26 - 00;05;38;10
And so I really think that they piloted that. Yeah, I think over ten years ago is maybe when all of that started. And then slowly but surely that has expanded into a big army. It's expanded into other branches of the military. It's expanded into police and fire. And I think what we can take away from that is, it's not just being bigger, faster, stronger.
00;05;38;10 - 00;05;58;11
It's not just keeping our nutrition in check. It's not just making sure we're injury free. Like, we have to put all of those things together. And how do those things all work together also for the individual that you're working with? So I think holistic health sounds tricky outside of even the tactical space. But, I try to think of it more as like longevity.
00;05;58;11 - 00;06;18;01
Like if we're looking at the whole piece, the whole human, the whole individual, how long can these people stay in their careers versus if we just look at how strong they are and we don't care about anything else, that's not really beneficial to gravity in their careers. So I'd say that's probably a big thing. And maybe I'm just more involved in that because that's just my personal interest.
00;06;18;04 - 00;06;41;01
But I do think it's becoming more and more recognizable that that's very important. Yeah. Tactical work in the tactical space isn't narrow. There's a lot of there's a lot of duties, responsibilities that you have to go through on a daily basis. And you're on call all the time. You've worked with military, you've worked in the public safety space.
00;06;41;03 - 00;07;04;14
Do you see those are similar? Are there a lot of differences there? Where are you out with that. Yeah. Good question. You know, I think as far as if I'm looking at like physical demands of the job, you know, people might think that police officers are more sedentary now. I mean, if you think about those in the military, if they're not deployed or they're not TDY, they're also sitting in an office.
00;07;04;14 - 00;07;21;07
And so, I like to think that it's all similar. I'm definitely not going to say they're all the same. But I also think if we're looking at a well-rounded, rounded individual who needs to be who needs to be able to call on different training qualities at any given point in their career, they're all going to be similar.
00;07;21;07 - 00;07;39;26
We need some aerobic endurance. We need anaerobic endurance. We need strength. We need a power. We need to be able to move. Well, all of those things that we look at, they're all important and there's really not one that's more important than the other. So when we look at our training for police, military, fire, we need to have all of those things in our training.
00;07;39;26 - 00;08;01;08
And and yes, maybe there are times throughout the year we can focus more on one than the other. But I think we're really doing people. We're working with a disservice if we only choose to focus on one at a time. We have a police officer that might be at a desk or two sitting in his cop car all day, but when he needs to chase after someone, he needs to chase after someone, and he doesn't know when that time is going to come.
00;08;01;11 - 00;08;19;11
So he needs to be ready to do that at any moment. And so are they all the same? No. But are they similar? Do they require similar training qualities? I would say yes. What about some of the stressors in the space? Where where do you see that falling in in terms of we hear a lot about mental stress in the tactical space.
00;08;19;14 - 00;08;43;01
Yeah. I love stress. I'm so glad you asked. Yeah, I think stress are our everyday stress are more different. Right. So, I think the benefit to maybe someone in the military is they can deploy and all of that stress is maybe where they're deployed and they can at least come home. And I've heard that talked about a lot is I can just like leave that stress there or leave what happened there?
00;08;43;01 - 00;09;07;00
Leave that trauma there. Police officers and firefighters, unfortunately, it could be like right around the corner from where they live, or they experienced something that was maybe stressful or traumatic or a you include shift work and that you have firefighters who work 24, 48, 72 hour shifts. You have police officers who do the same thing. You have those in the military who were getting there at 6 a.m. and they're not getting home until 8:00 at night because they're on the range all day.
00;09;07;00 - 00;09;33;29
So, you know, we think about the maybe traumatic experiences that they might have, but there's also so many additional stressors that the job requires, whether or not they have a traumatic experience that I just listed. So, I think just recognizing that these are very high stress jobs and even if physically they're not doing anything for a little bit, the mental stress that it places on them will affect the physical demands of their job that they have to do.
00;09;34;02 - 00;10;01;19
Yeah. What I'm hearing is the weights not always on the bar in these professions. And I think that's one of those phrases we hear in the tactical space that really brings you to, well, the need for physical fitness and health and wellness is to overcome these demands. You're on call all the time. It's it's incredibly challenging to be called on like that under pressure, under stress, right in your backyard, as you said, in the public safety space.
00;10;01;19 - 00;10;23;25
And I didn't really think about it like that before. These aren't areas that we talk about in strength and conditioning too often. Do you feel like coaches you've been that coach working in the tactical space? Do you feel like we're well prepared to handle those challenges? Absolutely not. I mean, we don't maybe, like maybe you took a sport psych class and you're undergrad or masters.
00;10;23;25 - 00;10;42;05
I took one sport psych class in my undergrad, one sport specific class in my masters. But I'm not even going to say that prepared me to work with mental health things. Right. You know, as a coach, you have the boss, as an incredible thing. But also, if you're not really prepared for it, it might not feel incredible in the moment.
00;10;42;05 - 00;11;04;21
It's the luxury of you have maybe the most contact points with this individual other than their family. Right. And so this person is going to get the team, the person, whoever is going to get really comfortable with you. And that's a good thing. Especially, if they trust you and they trust what you're doing, and eventually they're going to start opening up about life, about the job, about maybe trauma that they've experienced.
00;11;04;21 - 00;11;29;00
And if you're not, if you've never experienced anything yourself, if you if you never had those conversations with somebody, it's going to be really easy to kind of just like shut down and like not know what to do or to try to over maybe empathize in a way that doesn't seem like it is empathizing. And so, I mean, this is a huge topic, like how the coaches prepare for that side of a tactical space.
00;11;29;00 - 00;11;54;12
And, you know, I don't necessarily have an answer for that right now. I do think and and I don't say this till I brag, I think maybe my upbringing, things that happened in my, upbringing, you know, I experienced a lot of just growing up, and just other things where it was easier for me early on to relate, or at least not even really, but just be like, hey, I've been through something.
00;11;54;12 - 00;12;17;23
So like, if you're comfortable sharing with me, like, I can kind of empathize. Whereas, you know, for someone who hasn't maybe been through some of those things, I might be a little bit tougher. So I think one thing I'd be super interested in and doing at some point is, is what can we do to better equip coaches for those situations where they are kind of having to be a mental health person when they didn't plan to?
00;12;17;27 - 00;12;43;15
Hey, totally. We're not counselors, but often we get called on even in sport. I mean, we're not the we're not the coaches controlling playing time. Well, we're not the people giving these soldiers orders or whatever the the right analogy is, we're the outlet for them in the weight room, in the in the weight room can be a sanctuary for these, for these soldiers, for these officers, whatever it may be.
00;12;43;15 - 00;13;01;27
And so it's important that we know our role in those spaces that, you know what, they're not going to get a great training session if their heads are not in it. How do we get them there? That's obviously what we want to do. We want to get them into a productive training session. That's why we show up for work every day.
00;13;01;29 - 00;13;23;20
But there's a lot of things that come with that. And it's it's really interesting when you get into those. I always say the other book chapters, you know, from the essentials text or whatever, are these books, and it's one that I think it's important we don't focus on those chapters during our studying a lot of times, but it is important that why they're there.
00;13;23;20 - 00;13;52;07
Why do we need to know sports psychology or performance psychology? Why do we need to know nutrition to just to recognize a lot of these red flags? Yeah they do. You mentioned like, you know, maybe if they're like mental health, their mental state is in a good place. They might not have a good training session. But what I love doing and it's my favorite thing to hear, and I would do this all the time when I was, attend group is, you know, guys would come in and maybe they're just chatting and they'd hop on the bike to warm up, and then I end up just chatting with them.
00;13;52;07 - 00;14;09;05
And an hour has gone by and they're still on the bike and they're like, coach, you took my training session away. And I'm like, you probably needed that, but I didn't. I didn't take her training session in a way that was very purposeful. And I got into and doing that, and I was really just seeing how long you're willing to sit here and talk to me.
00;14;09;07 - 00;14;30;19
And so I think especially in that environment, you know, those are very high performing individuals oftentimes the goal and this goes to police and fire to this can happen in those settings. Too often times, the goal is to get them to take a step back like they're all day. They're trying to get to a day's and they're, they're they're usually training for some other competition outside of work, too.
00;14;30;19 - 00;14;46;18
So how can I actually get you to dial it back? And teaching them to do that slow down a little bit. And it's like rewarding for me. I know they don't always like it, but I always love when I catch them and they're like, coach, you took an hour by training time. And I'm like, good love that.
00;14;46;20 - 00;15;08;01
Well, I've never heard the term two days outside of college football. So here we are in tactical talking about two days. Yeah. What ask you about your new job. Your new role. How are you enjoying it. What are some of the big things you're working on. Yeah we have good question. You know, I always want to come into a new job with, like, you know, whether it's like a one year goal through your goal, all these things.
00;15;08;01 - 00;15;31;26
And, and I'll say to start out, it's it's been good. You know, I get to work with amazing coaches like you and Blake and Kevin in there. And I think just to be able to bounce ideas off of you guys is really good too. You kind of asked, like, what are some plans I have in mind? I think my I've been very narrow, focused only early on on the conference and just like getting all of that figured out.
00;15;31;26 - 00;15;50;06
And so, you know, I think a goal for mine, whether it plays out this year and following years for the conference, is just to create one that really has meaningful impact and one where people feel like they can come to connect. So I'm really trying to increase opportunities for connections at the conference. So that's a big goal of mine.
00;15;50;08 - 00;16;10;14
I really want to help grow the public side of things and nothing against anyone who's held this role before me. But military is the pride and joy of of this. That's the tactical program. And I absolutely agree with that. But I do think that, the fire and police side is growing quite a bit. So just to jump in, what does that look like for you?
00;16;10;14 - 00;16;27;15
How do we do that? Yeah, for sure. I think I was just talking to, Rob or the other day, you know, where. What are some, like, police officer conferences I can go to? What are some firefighter conferences I can go to? Who should I be in the room with talking to, to try to get them to know and understand?
00;16;27;15 - 00;16;48;00
Like the TSAC-F should be the standard. Like police and fire departments have pure fitness test. They have fitness type individuals on their departments. But the t sac should be the standard for that in my opinion. So that's definitely not something that happens in a day like it might take a couple of years to really get that going.
00;16;48;03 - 00;17;14;09
And, and I can get it going soon. But to actually have that implemented might take a couple of years. So yeah, I'd love to have the zeitgeist be like the standard for police and fire departments and to have at least one t sac f one all departments I think would be super cool and helpful. And then I think, yeah, just the, the growth of to teach that course to and the kind of like I mentioned how that can be kind of like a minimum standard, not just having a certification, but going through that course.
00;17;14;09 - 00;17;32;16
So you get the hands on experience, too. And yeah, so I think obviously I have spent most of my career in the military side of things, but, I do really want to grow the public safety side of things, and I'm sure I'll have a million ideas as time goes. I also, I always tell everyone, I think I've said this to you and Scott multiple times.
00;17;32;16 - 00;17;47;15
I have like anyone that I've talked to since I've had the job, whether it's a friend or someone who reached out or whatever. I'm just like, if you have ideas for how this program can be better, like, give them to me, share them with me, because I'm not generally a good idea and what I am a good executer.
00;17;47;21 - 00;18;01;20
So like if you're listening to this, you're interested in and talk to a lawyer in the tactical space and you have ideas, but like possibly how this program can grow, how it can be better, where it can be more impactful because reach out to me, I let me know and like, let's see how we can make those things happen.
00;18;01;22 - 00;18;23;11
Yeah, I like it. To your point, NSCA isn't just the CSCS. We have five certification programs, TSAC-F being one of them. We both carry that credential to someone out there who is just learning about the TSA, who should be going to get this credential. Yeah. I mean, good question. I think it is. The qualifications are different.
00;18;23;11 - 00;18;59;07
You know, you just have to have a high school certificate or GED to sit for this. I do think while it is not a requirement for strength and conditioning coaches to have to get jobs in the tactical space, I do think if you're wanting to make the switch, from college to actual, from high school, from whatever, from something different, and you want to get into the tactical space, I do think it's still valuable to sit for that exam and get that certification simply just as the first step into learning, the first step into showing that you care what their what the demands of their job look like, is it required?
00;18;59;08 - 00;19;29;10
No. Do you have to, you know, do I think that it shows that you care and are making efforts towards learning? Absolutely. Secondary to that, it's police officers, firefighters, military personnel, service members who want to bring physical fitness, strength and conditioning, human performance to their department, to their unit, and essentially be a force multiplier, and just be able you by no means are you a subject matter expert at the end of getting the certification.
00;19;29;12 - 00;19;52;04
But you are hopefully well versed enough to know maybe someone that you can refer out to or somewhere that you can look online to help get resources or someone that you can look like in the NSCA to get resources. And yeah, so I think and most of the people who hold their teams, I guess, are probably our police, military, fire, it is okay and really be a force multiplier type certification.
00;19;52;07 - 00;20;24;20
But like I said, I do think it helps coaches looking to get into the space to just sort of show that you're learning about what they do. Yeah, we've said it's kind of a bookend credential. People with their degrees with their CSCS go and get it to show competence or expertise in the tactical space or to make that transition, like you mentioned, those coming in from the police, fire, public safety side of things, probably most often, also in the military, but aren't in the fitness profession.
00;20;24;22 - 00;20;47;14
They have another career. It's still can elevate their profession, maybe give them an opportunity to be sort of the fitness captain for their for their group. And that's one of the cool things about the TSF is that it serves multiple populations and, kind of a hidden gem within the NSCA for, for those looking to learn tactical, we have a textbook for it.
00;20;47;14 - 00;21;09;08
We have courses for it, tons of resources like we do for all of our programs here at the NSCA. So I'm really glad you mentioned it. We've talked about the pathway a little bit into tactical. Let's go deeper on that. What advice do you have for someone who wants to be a tactical strength and conditioning coach? What do they need to know about the tactical athlete?
00;21;09;13 - 00;21;33;24
What did you learn during your early career stages? Yeah. Good question. You know, like I said, fortunately I was just kind of thrown into it early on. And, you know, just simply knowing the right people. And I say this, whether you want to be in tactical or any strength and conditioning space is oftentimes who you know. And and I can give credit to someone else for every job I've ever held like I never I've never applied to a job.
00;21;33;24 - 00;21;59;18
Just like cold application and not knowing anyone there or not knowing someone who knows someone. I, I just don't think I'll ever get a response if I do that. So I've always at least known someone, or knew someone who knew someone when I was looking at jobs and, even outside of the tactical space. So why I say that is go to the conferences, go to the actual annual training Doe.
00;21;59;18 - 00;22;19;25
And even if you don't have your TSAC-F certification, even if you've never worked with the tactical population, go work and or go attend and meet people. There's so many professionals there in the field. Go talk to speakers. Most people are willing to talk, you know, I'm a social butterfly, so I can't speak for everyone, but anyone that I've ever just.
00;22;19;25 - 00;22;39;16
I don't know them. I've talked on the shoulder and just wanted to hold a conversation. I've never gotten turned off from a conversation at any conference I've ever been to. And so I think that speaks really highly to the, the people that are coming to the NSCA conferences. Generally, they're always willing to help. So I'd say part one, go to conferences or put yourself in positions to meet people.
00;22;39;16 - 00;22;59;28
If you have a state or a regional event and you recognize someone speaking from the tactical space, go ahead that go introduce yourself to them. I think meeting people is huge outside of that. You know, I think it's it's doing the research. Even if you don't get your TSAC-F certification, maybe just get the textbook to read and see what are the demands of these individuals.
00;23;00;03 - 00;23;24;26
Understand what are. And there's so much research. Obviously, I'm a research nerd, but like, there's so much research on what the physical and stress demands are of these jobs. So do the research also. And and show up to your first interview knowing without a shadow of a doubt what you're working with. Because I think that's where you can kind of get picked apart is if you're like, oh, I've, you know, I've just worked with like athletes and, and I think the athlete is similar in this way.
00;23;24;26 - 00;23;41;28
I think you should go into your interview like, hey, I've done my research. I understand this is what I'm working with. I understand these are some things that I might see in this role. And here's what I plan to do to kind of help that. And and I think those are ways to to really help you get a job in the space of that's kind of what you're looking for.
00;23;42;02 - 00;24;08;04
It's great advice. Seek conversations in the field and the direction you want to go in your career. Show up at the events. Tactical annual training is a big one coming up every year. I know you're working really hard on that right now to get the speaker lineup, on the website and up for everybody. For those who want to continue this conversation after the episode, why don't you share your NSCA email with us and we'll put it in the show notes?
00;24;08;07 - 00;24;35;03
Yeah. You can find me at Whitney Dot Trammel. That's TR A M, as in Mike, E L at NSCA.com and more than glad to connect. Hop on a call. I feel like that's been a lot of my job this first month is hopping on calls, connecting with people. And I love that I can talk to anyone. So if you have questions, if you just want to connect, if you're curious, maybe how I can help or even take my brain, or how the NSCA can maybe help with what you're doing.
00;24;35;05 - 00;24;52;10
Shoot me an email and let's hop on a call and we can talk about that. That's perfect. Thank you to Whitney. Really appreciate you coming on. Excited to have you on our team here at the NSCA. And I know the tactical field and all the coaches out there are really excited to have you on board with us.
00;24;52;10 - 00;25;13;17
So thank you. I'm stoked to be here to meet more tactical coaches. NSCA tactical annual training is right around the corner in August. Keep an eye out for NSCA emails and social media on that and other NSCA events. Thanks for listening and to our sponsors, Sorinex Exercise Equipment, we appreciate their support. Hey, this is Nick Barringer.
00;25;13;17 - 00;25;30;22
I want to tell everybody to go to the tactical annual event for the NSCA. It's an amazing event with amazing speakers. You do not want to miss it. Since I have been going, I always leave with a new nugget of wisdom. Go check it out.
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This was the NSCA’s Coaching Podcast. The National Strength and Conditioning Association was founded in 1978 by strength and conditioning coaches to share information, resources and help advance the profession. Serving coaches for over 40 years, the NSCA was the trusted source for strength and conditioning professionals. Be sure to join us next time.
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